DRAFT PROPOSAL 4: HOPR - ETH pair on Uniswap (Ethereum)

I think this would be a good idea to do so that when eth starts to rise again it will also help HOPR to rise as well. I’m not `100 % sure on how the AMM formula works however something to consider is that we need to apply these strategies based on the crypto cycles that we have observed so far.

The 4 year cycle has a top and a bottom. If we are supplying liquidity then the hopr-eth pool should be added when we are at/close to the bottom of the cycle, and when we are at/close to the top, we should make sure to remove 50-75% of liquidity to realized the gains in the bull market. The removed liquidity should be converted into the HOPR-stable coin liquidity pool. when we hit bottom range again, we should remove the stable coin pools liquidity (50-75%) and re-add to the eth-hopr pool.
We can use dollar cost averaging method to add/remove liquidity. We could also have midpoints where we could do this exercise,

In summary, what I’m trying to convey here is that, there is a risk and a reward for adding eth-hopr pool and we should be proactively identify the ideal time frames when to add and when to remove so that we can capitalize the market movements more effectively and help HOPR liquidity grow even in a bear market. This approach minimizes the risk in price fluctuations, in fact, HOPR will benefit from it

Is this the right amount- ETH-HOPR can be largest pool out of all, if above approach is adopted.

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For anyone in the same boat, I think it’s worth it for the sake of the discussion to understand how these pools work, so I encourage people to read up about this. There are many good resources online, not least the official documentation. This proposal is about Uniswap V3 (although not explicitly mentioned). Uniswap V2 is a bit easier to understand if you want a more gentle introduction to a simpler concept, before reading about V3. Most other DEXes work in very similar ways.

In any case, the way these pools work is that when you have a heavy HOPR/ETH pool, it tends to link the price movements of both tokens together. For example if ETH raises in value, HOPR raises in value as well, provided nobody is trading in the pool. If 1 ETH is worth 10,000 HOPR, then this defines a ratio of 1:10,000 between the two tokens. If there is no trading in the pool, this ratio will stay the same no matter what ETH is currently priced at. Only if people trade in the pool will this ratio ever change. This means that the only way that ETH can raise in value, but HOPR remains the same, is when people are actively selling HOPR while ETH goes up. The ratio between the two tokens in a pool has a kind of inertia that ties them together. The bigger the pool, the stronger the link and the harder it is to change that ratio.

In the other side, pairing HOPR with a stable coin will cause it to have that inertia with a stable value. Thus if nobody is trading in a HOPR/DAI pool, HOPR’s value in that pool will remain constant.

Obviously, many other external factors will influence a token’s price, it is not solely defined by one heavy pool.

HOPR being paired up with ETH is what makes this proposal quite a bit different compared to the other three.

Thanks for this. As part of these discussions I’d be happy for people to create new threads with what they see as useful general context that applies to the proposals as a whole.

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So far in this bear market, this effect has served hopr well (as previously noted), and should continue to do so while the market continues to tank. All the more so because of the massive size of the hopr/dai LP.

If we do this proposal, it would make the most sense to do as MeowMeow23 has suggested. Timing the market is notoriously difficult, and $ cost averaging will help, aditionally it would be helpful to identify a number of factors that would indicate being close to the bottom. Miner capitulation will be a strong indicator, and the current energy crisis will likely bring this forward (from where it might have been without a proxy war between NATO & Russia).

Chico Crypto did some analysis a while back based on the average % lost from ATH and average time frames from start of bear cycle and the halvening and came up with $14k BTC as close to the bottom. Personally I think this is a good target for switching some funds from hopr/dai to hopr/eth.

Support the proposal.

I believe that this is a much stronger and productive proposal than the other Uniswap proposal (DRAFT PROPOSAL 3: HOPR - xDAI pair on Uniswap (Gnosis Chain)). With $5.07b TVL, Uniswap is the default DEX for many in the DeFi community and having additional pools there will encourage usage, especially with those seeking arbitrage opportunities. As this project grows, it generally makes sense to make obtaining $HOPR as effortless as possible.

I believe Ethereum is going to hold its spot as the top smart contract blockchain. The growth of L2s such as Arbitrum and Optimism, and the potential of zkSync only reinforce my view. That said, the 7 day volume for DAI/HOPR right now is $363.11k. The ETH/HOPR pair’s 7 day volume is $832.15. While the TVL in the ETH/HOPR pool is minuscule, I don’t necessarily think the focus on DAI/HOPR liquidity is an issue.

Furthermore, HOPR’s development and short term utility is focused on Gnosis Chain right now. The volume of the DAI/HOPR pair on Uniswap doesn’t seem to justify an additional pool. The rate are the same right now when swapping ETH and DAI to HOPR.

Rather than move the full $500,000 from HOPR/DAI to HOPR/ETH, if we are to provide ETH/HOPR liquidity, I propose only $250,000 be moved at this time. This will allow us to access what effect, if any, this has on trading on Ethereum.

I do not support this proposal in its current form.

If this happens I am not in anymore. I don’t want to help with supporting the Ethereum blockchain. The fee are not normal, not all people can participate, only the persons with big bugs can pay for those enormous fees. If this changes (ETH 2.0??) I will revise my opinion.

One thing I learned more than once in the past – normally it is not a good thing if tech teams start to take actions in the context of anticipating the future market with a $ focus → remember Substratum shorting the bottom ;-)

How those this proposal differ from the question if the DAO should speculate/hope on rising prices of ETH? If someone could answer this please.

What does it do for DAO to have the pool HOPR-ETH besides the hope that ETH will pull us up?

  • We buy/trade the DAO into more exposure towards ETH (down and up) and the holders too if the pool becomes HOPR-ETH
  • The DAO could also sell the existing 500k DAI-HOPR liquidity and invest it into ETH and hold the exposure on the DAO treasury books instead of collaterally rolling it over to the holders too
  • If individuals feel the need to be more exposed to ETH, they could add HOPR-ETH liquidity themselves or sell HOPR for ETH until a desired ratio is there.

I would be very interested in answers that do not contain the “if ETH goes up it pulls us/HOPR up argument”, instead showing how this benefits HOPR in any functional and non-speculative way.

I support the proposal to move liquidity to HOPR-ETH pool on Uniswap. The decision is not easy, but we should move forward. The Ethereum network deserves special attention, this offer can become an incentive for the growth of the attractiveness of our token in trade.

I suggest making HOPR-ETH pool on Uniswap as large as possible.

As for the bear-market, do not forget that any financial markets have cycles of growth and decline — this is a normal phenomenon.

Let’s take an example of the S&P index drops in the first half of the year - Top10

  1. 1970 -21,81%

  2. 2022 -21,08%

  3. 2008 -11,55%

  4. 1982 -10,70%

  5. 1953 -9,04%

  6. 2010 -9,03%

  7. 1966 -8,07%

  8. 1977 -6,09%

  9. 1969 -5,98%

  10. 1960 -4,99%

In all cases, there was a panic mood of sellers, but the downward cycle eventually changed to bullish. We just need patience and time.

Now there is a difficult situation in the world, but sooner or later everything will return to normal, as it has been repeatedly in history.

Thus, as a project, we need to move forward, especially during the downturn in the financial markets. This step demonstrates our strength and confidence in the future of the project.

I believe this strategy strays away from HOPRs fundamental values.

This strategy seems to be more concerned with profit rather than long term survival of the token.

Until HOPR has been fully implemented into the web3 ecosystem such risks should be avoided.

As mentioned above HOPR was one of the few survivors of the initial nose dive and I feel this happened because there is a genuine team that loves their project, steering the wheel.

Whenever HOPR has made a decision in the past, the team can usually speak for hours about the thought process behind why they did what they did. If we were to move funds based on the thought that the market can only go up from here, we would be making a decision unlike any other HOPR has made.

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I agree, seems like a decision based on what the market might do in the future

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We consider the very high price/volatility of ETH gas costs to be a disadvantage, and we are skeptical about offering only a simple uniswap pair.
However, the market is large, including NFT, and we believe that starting with a clear service offering would help expand the HOPR ecosystem.
In any case, we think it is necessary to first establish the significance of using HOPR, such as service offerings at the L2 layer, with a view to the future.

Do you consider the risks associated with rumors of uniswap migration to cosmos?

I think now is a good time

These are excellent points which have all been brought up internally.

I would say that as a member of the HOPR team I’m neutral on this particular proposal. I brought it forward mostly because I find it interesting and because some community members expressed a desire for this pairing in the past. (And it does feel like if the DAO is going to do this it should be in a bear market not the top of a bull…)

An argument in favour of this proposal that isn’t based on riding ETH’s coat tails is that having high liquidity in non-correlated pairs would increase the amount of arbitrage and hence trade volume. HOPR has occasionally flirted with being in the top 50 or so most traded tokens. Getting onto the first page of results can really raise awareness because suddenly you’re on all kinds of automated radars.

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As the main ecosystem of HOPR is Gnosis Chain, I find it is a reasonable idea to distinguish the function of the liquidity on Ethereum and GC.
On GC where most of the HOPR activity takes place, we would need more stable pool as most of the HOPR users will/can get $HOPR directly on GC, while on Ethereum, we can utilise the liquidity for the profit-oriented and publicity purpose.

I have one question, though.
If there is “68.2m HOPR and 4.7m DAI” liquidity as mentioned in the medium article, and the sum of all the four proposals is 1.35m in liquidity (0.5m + 0.5m + 0.25m + 0.1m), where does the rest of the liquidity of 3.35m go? Is it going to stay in the HOPR-DAI pool on Ethereum? (excuse me if I’m misunderstanding anything)

If that is the case, it would make me more convinced with this proposal (as well as the other proposals).

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I agree that the gas fee on Ethereum can be ridiculous. On the other hand, Gnosis Chain wouldn’t be able to take a successful road without Ethereum IMO, plus they are indeed working on the scaling as you mentioned (Eth2).

The proposal is suggesting to keep a part of current liquidity in Ethereum while moving another part to Gnosis Chain. Most of us will be buying/selling on Gnosis Chain after this change, and we let those who with big bags (and bot) play with our liquidity on Ethereum, which will bring us some profit and free publicity ;)

In that sense, the proposal is not so against your stand point, I believe.

Although Hopr Dai liquidity has been very beneficial for Hopr so far, adding eth liquidity will benefit Hopr. I think it will be beneficial for the development of the hopr that the Eth Price is currently low. With eth liquidity there will be more volume with arbitrageurs and will benefit the hopr dao fund. Eth liquidity will bring risks, but for now, I think the price of eth will drop more. If they want to adapt people to crypto, whales must give confidence, I think falling below certain price limits will affect crypto worse. I think we are at this price threshold in Eth and adding liquidity will be in the benefit of hopr. I think the amount offered is enough to avoid taking too much risk. Best Regards…

I do not support this proposal, firstly gas fees on eth are still high compared to dai, secondly our transaction volume is not large even though the list is listed on coinbase so it is difficult to earn large enough liquidity for Hopr-ETH . pair

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